Sunday, January 25, 2009

Astrology in Ancient Egypt

I started this blog out by describing each constellation, somewhat through the Macedonian's (Greeks) point of view. 

Their legends and myths change through each century and their rulers, and other factors. 
- Now why did I go about it in this way, if I wanted to describe the ancient Egyptians point of view? 

Simply because between these two Empires lies a truth, a distinct border between the 'old ways' and the new so-called 'modernized people', which we all descend from, as we also descend from the older ones of the 'older ways.' 

Ancient Egypt could probably be called the last great civilization from the more ancient world. And through this great society, we have their surviving documents and monuments, which teach us much from a 'lost past.' 

One thing which depicts the ‘border-line’ between the very ancient ones and the new world was the most basic to our nature, namely the writing systems, which became more like the Greeks.


Dendera temples zodiac circle


But surely it must be the zodiac representation that is the defining border between them. For the Greeks changed this to the circle and inside they placed the symbols of the constellations. Where as the ancient Egyptians portrayed it in lines, just as they normally wrote. In those most ancient of days, all knew about the setting of the sun and the coming of the stars and the Lovely Moon, and much more.


The Secret of Anubis written by Karima L.
I state that I believe that it is from the ancient Egyptians that the Greeks came to create their stories and legends about the constellation. Because in ancient Egypt they already had stories about the stars, they even gave them colors. 

Upon the walls of their toms can be found; the names of the stars as just being a small part of their great understanding of both life and death. But there has not been found a star chart like we see in later Greek history, a circular one. 

Other ancient cultures do have circular forms just like the Greeks came to have, but Egyptians wrote it different. 

They also have the 36 Decans in boats, and the heaven of Nut. The only place so fare known, where we find something from ancient Egypt, which look a little bit like the circular star chart from the Greeks time period, is in the Valley of the Kings.

One section of the tomb, gives illustrations which match the modern chart, which was to come later on. 

This border gives clear evidence, that something major was happening behind the scenes in the days of Alexandria the great and his descendants. 

The way that people 'saw' our universe was slowly changed, and subjects became separated, just as you see in the topic of Astrology vs. Astronomy - two sides of one coin. The creative force meets the scientific mind.

17 comments:

  1. really nice blog on astrology good work

    ReplyDelete
  2. Katrina: If you really want to know the meaning behind the murals, the pyramids, the temples, the aztec sun stone, get a copy of "The Book of the Hopi" by Frank Waters. Read the Hopi Creation Story and add "pyramid" where they talk about ant hills and "polar ice caps" where they talk about the twins. Its all about the earth's delicate balance, the melting polar ice caps, and our location in space or the constellations. T. O. Mills Former Manager Hopi Cultural Center Author "The Book of Truth"

    ReplyDelete
  3. Dear T.O.Mills

    Or you could check out my other blog about ancient Egypt at http://gizaegypt.blogspot.com/
    ;)

    ReplyDelete
  4. Hello Katrina:

    I didn't see the movie but you did a good job explaining it.

    If you look at KV-5 from above you see a male kachina figure. He has two arms, two legs, two feet and leggings just above his feet the same as a Hopi Kachina. He has 6 chambers attached to each legging for balance and at his mid-section, he has six chambers on his left side and one on his right. These represent what the Creator told the Hopi, we had six chances in the begining and the seventh time was for the creator or his time to create.

    The only thing missing is his head and I believe if you look behind the figure of Osiris located at the top of the chamber, you will find another chamber. Just a thought. All the best. Thomas O. Mills

    ReplyDelete
  5. thomas o. mills,

    You might be talking to someone else? Who is Katrina?

    To the other part of your comment;
    KV-5 which is the tomb of Rameses II son's http://www.thebanmappingproject.com/sites/browse_tomb_819.html
    I would personally not say that it looks that much like a human figure, I can see that it could look like it, with some imagination, but I personally don't think so.
    I am not sure what you are talking about in regards to ‘we had six chances in the begining and the seventh time was for the creator or his time to create.’ ?
    I am sorry but I cannot figure this comment out, what you mean, what you are talking about regarding a missing chamber?
    There are many chambers that are not found yet.

    Sincerely,
    Karima

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hello Karima:

    One of the chambers might be located behind the figure of Osiris.

    If it is you might consider reading the Hopi Creation Story.

    All the best. Thomas O. Mills

    ReplyDelete
  7. Dear Thomas O. Mills,

    I am deeply sorry if my reply offended you in some way, this was surely not my intention.

    Yes I agree there could be a chamber behind the Osiris statue in KV-5.
    Actually I have read one of the creation myths of the American native people called Hopi, but it was just one of their creation myths (there are several). I deeply agree in that much from the Native American people is very parallel to the ancient Egyptian mythology.
    Sincerely,
    Karima

    ReplyDelete
  8. Hello Karima:

    Sorry I spelled your name wrong. I am getting old. I've been working on the Hopi Creation Story since 1998 and just think everyone knows what I do.

    The reason I contacted you was your interested in the constellations and the Egyptians. I'm interested in the constellations because of the Hopi.

    Here are four blogs I just put up:
    www.Hopicreationstory.wordpress.com

    www.Hopitruth.wordpress.com

    www.Hopiproof.wordpress.com

    www.Hopitruthwheel.wordpress.com

    I think you will be most interested in the last one called Hopi truth wheel. It shows the constellations on the ground at the Valley of the Kings. Might get you started in a whole new direction.

    All the best. Thomas O. Mills

    ReplyDelete
  9. Dear Thomas O. Mills,

    No need to apologize, I just could not figure out if you were talking to me.
    It’s very interesting for me that you are working around the Hopi’s creation myth, and then for so many years. I find the Native Americans to have such a remarkable history and I just basically have a deep love for them. It is just so sad, that some cultures have been both neglected and kept in control to reduce their ‘numbers’ (such a bad word in this context) or as I would say it, pushing them hard towards extinction. I’ve actually looked some on the Hopi people namely because of their star-belief, it is truly fascinating. I found something in Egypt, which is never mentioned, so I wanted to write a book about it, still in the research and noting process. But this can clearly be linked to the Native Americans ideas, and might come to prove many cultures connection in very ancient days.
    I have looked a little bit at your posts, and they are indeed interesting. You might be right. I again personally am not so sure about the idea about the Valley of the Kings being planned by such a diagram from the Native Americans. And there are some other factors that make me question this:
    And first of I must say I need a lot more information about the last link /post, because I am not sure what the truth wheel diagram (I call it diagram – I am thinking that it is the plan over how the Hopi people saw the night heavens?) And you placed this diagram/map upon a map of the Valley of the Kings, and if I am not mistaken then you have the midpoint placed in the tomb KV-5, right? My first question would have to be, why did you place this midpoint in KV-5? My knowledge about KV-5 is only half of the excavators’ knowledge, which is that this tomb belongs to Ramesses II many sons, this is also why it is so big (Ramesses II had over 100 boys and over 100 girls – children by many wives. Ramesses outlived many of his children, and therefore this tomb was built). Here my next question comes; Ramesses II was not the first king to be buried in the Valley of the kings, and many other tombs (Ramesses I and Sety I) are older, so how did the past ancestors know where future pharaohs would lie, hereby making it possible for Ramesses II to come along much later, and making his tomb the center point? The tomb KV-5 dates to Ramesses II period around 1270 B.C but Ramesses I (KV-16) was buried there around 1291 B.C. and Sety I (KV-17 - Ramesses father) was buried there around 1278 B.C. So how can Ramesses II sons be the midpoint?
    - But I do find it interesting and see some fascinating things, such as the tomb of Sety I and his father are placed in the Taurus-area, and in the Gemini-area lay the two brothers in KV-9 (Ramesses V and Ramesses VI). But there are also a lot that I cannot connect.
    I might have misunderstood a lot because of lack of information about what I am looking at.
    But your blogs are very interesting and I will indeed read on.

    Sincerely,
    Karima

    ReplyDelete
  10. Hello Karima:

    You mentioned early that there were several Hopi Creation Myths or Stories. The one you should concentrate on would be Frank Waters "The Book of the Hopi", he lived with the Hopi for three years in 1963 and the elders stories were translated to him by a friend of mine named White Bear. I lived on the reservation for four years in the early 70's and things change with time.

    The Hopi believe this is the fourth time the creator has had to come back to earth and start civilization over again. This might explain why the tombs have been arranged in different locations in different periods of time, why Tutankhamun was buried in four gold coffins, why Horus had four sons, why the pyramids have been built in different periods and on top of each other in Mexico, China, and Egypt with some of them have three or four levels of development, and why Karnak, Dendera, Luxor and many of the Ptolemaic temples and most of the Pharaonic temples have been reconstructed during there use and have four doorways. If the doorways point to the solstice now my thought would be that they pointed to the solstice in the past??

    The Hopi have never been relocated or changed their religion. They live where their guardian placed them after a great flood, 12,500 years ago. Their land has little value, no water, no anything so no one wanted it. They have been waiting for their true white brother to come back and join the ceremonies, so the native American's knew and welcomed the white man when we hit the shores. The murals of Egypt show four red, white, black, and yellow men ready to begin their journey so you have to look at Egypt as the birth place of civilization and this is the fourth time. 12,500 years ago is also the last time the poles melted, the Nile river began flowing in its present location, and the Hopi landed on the western side of the American continent at a site called Monte Verde.

    I developed the Hopi Truth Wheel from Stonehenge and the Hopi ceremonial cycle. It works at all the Mayan sites, anywhere there is a stone circle, the pyramid complex, and stonehenge. I placed it over the Kachina figure at KV-5 to find out which direction east was at the time the complex was built.

    If you look at the murals with an open mind and remember the Hopi Creation story a whole new meaning appears. The four sons of Horus actually date which period of time they were in. Or when you see the man with the beard you know its the 1st time, the man as the Hawk the fourth,etc. The scale of Matt shows us going from the 3rd time to the 4th time because of balance.

    Ramessess had lots of children because he was here to populate the planet. The Hopi Creation story states we were all equal and created at the same time, black, yellow, red, and white. I think the murals, temples, and complex at Egypt show that that was the place it all happened, three times in the past and then our present civilization. Its all about time and balance our location in space.

    I have a question for you. When I found the constellations at the Valley of the Kings, the location for Orion already had three holes located where his belt would be. What are those holes? I was using the map off of the computer so not sure what they were.

    All the best. Thomas O. Mills

    ReplyDelete
  11. Dear Thomas O.Mills,

    Wow you live don a reservation? It must truly have been an experience that is unforgettable and very spiritual? Yes things do have a tendency to change, even faster today, than before.

    Hmm… In the second paragraph you say that the Hopi people believed that it is the fourth time, and then you connect this to different things in ancient Egypt, but I am afraid that I again might see it differently. I understand where you are coming from, and the ‘four’ is indeed very evident in many (if not all) ancient cultures, but I personally connect the ‘four’ with the elements, the four pillars.
    Actually Horus had seven sons, as I explain in my post here http://gizaegypt.blogspot.com/2009/11/duamutef-one-of-founders-of-astrology.html

    It is truly very interesting what you are saying. I would agree with you on some points, and debate others. There is indeed clear evidence that ancient people had both knowledge about each other and then a more universal level. You might be right, but in ancient Egypt not everything is surrounded by the number 4, actually I would call them the masters of numbers/numerology, because I see more than just one level to their ideas, might sound a little bit out there, so I’ll give you an example of what I mean: Lets just take the great pyramid for this example. Great and uniquely remarkable in its perfected building techniques, which no one to this day, really knows or understands. See there it stands raised above the land, its triangle shape so mysterious and fascinating, it draws us all to it. But something magical is actually even more evident, and people tend to lack to notice it, notice the mathematical perfection especially for its time. The triangle is made up of four walls, each having a triangle shape (3 points on each side), I connect this to the seven sons of Horus. We have four points on the ground, and three points on the sides, as they were a ladder to the greatest point on the pyramid, its top, the point of One.
    So in some ways I do agree in that the pyramids have ‘levels/platforms’ but I just don’t think we see them the same way.
    For your question:
    What do you mean that you found the constellations at the Valley of the king’s? You do understand that the ancient Egyptian did not work with constellations but instead the individual stars? And also the constellations have changed and some have been lost, or just ‘taken out’.
    To answer your question I would need to see how you lay your star map upon the map of the Valley of the king’s? Again which points are your references points?

    Sincerely,
    Karima

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hello Karima:

    The map of the Valley of the Kings with the constellations is the same one you looked at at www.hopitruthwheel.wordpress.com. If you double click on the image it will double the size and make it easier for you to see. I was just curious about Orion's belt and if the three marks on the ground were man made or not.

    I looked at the site you suggested about the seven son's of Horus. There was not a picture of his son's and I was wondering if there was one available somewhere. In Tompkins "Secrets of the Great Pyramid" page 258 at the top of the page I believe it shows the creator and the order he created the four sons. This would give you time frame for each son and the direction he was associated with. #1. The human figure South, #2 The baboon figure North, #3. The jackal figure East, and the #4. Hawk or Falcon West. What direction would the other three be associated with?

    The Hopi Creation Story starts by saying that when the Creator found Earth it was out of Balance. The first thing the Creator had to do before life could be placed on the planet was to stabilize it, this might be the reason that all the major pyramids are located on or near the 30th parallel in China, Mexico, and Egypt. The Creator said he would do this 9 times, once for himself, once for his nephew, the first time and 6 more to come or seven. So having the first four of Horus sons created and three more to come would be logical to me. It is also the reason that KV-5 has a chamber with 6 pillars on one side and one on the other. Just a thought.

    It also explain the arrangement of the pyramid complex, or Khufu (Creator) pyramid the largest with three satellite pyramids to create, Khafre (Nephew's) pyramid in the center, and Menhaure (first world) pyramid with three satellite pyramids all ready used or destroyed.

    If you would like you can download my theory at Lulu.com or have a printed copy mailed to you. Its called "The Book of Truth A New Perspective on the Hopi Creation Story".

    If you look at the astronomical mural in Senenmut's tomb you see the Nephew standing at the bottom pointing up towards the #4 son or Qebehsenuel who is about to spear the bull (Taurus). There are four times or wheels on his right and 8 wheels or times on this left. I believe each of these wheels represents one complete cycle around the procession of the equinox or constellation like the ceiling of Dendera. There are seven figures on the bottom right and nine on his left. The destroyer is standing at the bottom with a switch in his had ready to take us from the fourth world to the fifth and one more circle will be moved over to the right hand side.

    The melting of our polar ice caps is very bad and will effect the earths delicate balance. Thats what this is all about, time and balance our location in space.

    All the best. Thomas O. Mills

    ReplyDelete
  13. Dear Thomas O. Mills,

    I have looked carefully upon the image on your blog, and I have clicked it to zoom in. I did look at Orion, and I can see what you are referring to. But I am seeing something else, only 1 ‘mark’ as you called it, which is really an entrance to one of the tombs, the other part, I see as text Saying KV something. There is a little box besides the tomb entrances but I think this is supposed to be the tomb itself. But I cannot see three marks as you are talking about?

    Hmm.. I think you might misunderstand me in some way… I might be studying ancient Egypt in a completely different way than you. You seem to be more drawn to the new age theory about the stars aligning up to the constellation, but I am not on that same track. Actually I am completely the other way, following the traditional works, and seeing the stars as they really were in ancient Egypt. What I mean by this is that I see fact and history as is, and mix no theory of my own into the mix until I have reached an ending in my research (which I almost have). I mean I know and have learned that the ancient Egyptian did not know of the constellations as we see them today, this came about in the more modern time of the Ptolemy’s whom ‘bowered’ the zodiac and constellation from the Babylonians.
    But I have figured out (personal theory; that there indeed was something like the constellation in ancient days, before the Greeks. But they are nothing like the images today, and I mean nothing like them).
    I have not read the book that you are referring too, but I think I have read about these theories through other writers. You are talking about ‘time frames’ again I must admit you have lost me, I need more information to understand what you are speaking about? The time frame of the Native Americans or the Egyptians? I am sorry to say, I see things differently.
    I haven’t found an image of all the sons together, the three of the seven, seems very rarely portrayed, or I just haven’t been able to find them. What directions the other three has? You cannot make conclusive thoughts to their nature, because they go beyond. If ever they were directional markers, then I could say that the three other brothers could reflect, upwards and downwards and inwards, off course they are none of the above and yet they are more.
    It is interesting to hear about the Hopi people’s creation myth. You draw a lot of parallel to ancient Egypt. I cannot go in and agree on the point you say about : “So having the first four of Horus sons created and three more to come would be logical to me”? I think your theory might be a little bit fare fetched (considering the ancient Egyptians history) I have trouble following your ideas. I am sorry to say.
    I know what you are speaking about regarding Senenmut, but again I have read scholar work around this and studied it myself, and I see something different.
    I also know what chaos it will bring for our environment (if not human race ending), when the change of our poles happens. And how the earth is a living organism itself floating endless in a harsh environment as space.
    I completely understand what you mean by the last part of your comment, that this is what you are speaking about, earths time in the location ‘space’ ;) (said a little differently) But I cannot agree with a lot of the theories you have concerning the Egyptian belief. The wheels in Senenmut’s tomb could also symbolize something else.
    But I think we are into different things/subjects of the ancient people, seeing things differently.
    Sincerely,
    Karima

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hello Karima:

    You are correct. We both have been taught a different point of view concerning, the murals, the pyramids, man kinds creation, and the constellations.

    Wish you all the best in the future.
    Thomas O. Mills

    ReplyDelete
  15. Dear Thomas O. Mills,

    I will defiantly see if I can find your book and read it, because it does sound interesting. Yes everyone is taught differently, which is good, because then we are able to expand our view of curtain things. I am not so much into the Hopi peoples mythology, but it is truly fascinating to read about. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me, I find them very interesting. Maybe I can agree on more if I understood the complete picture of what you are saying, I must read your book. So I am thankful for your comments.

    I wish you an even better future, I hope to see more of your idears.

    (personal note: I am deeply into the stars, but I have to keep it on the up and up, so I don't loose respect from the general Egyptologist - they only like such theories if they can be proven and make sense - which I agree with - but there is a lot that they do not talk about at all.)
    Sincerely,
    Karima

    ReplyDelete
  16. Anonymous7:34 PM

    The last couple of days I've been looking for ancient egyptian astrology and gladly I stumble into your blog, it has great info on what I'm looking and is going to be quite useful for the paper I'm working on.
    BTW is crazy how many generic viagra blogs I manage to dodge in order to get the right site and the right information.
    Thanks for the post and have a nice day

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous5:17 PM

    Hi Karima,
    I'm so glad I stumbled upon this site. Could you pleaseeeee update wikipedia on historic astrology. I was distressed that there is little or no mention of the Egyptian origin of astrology, aside from a short blurb on Dendera. Everything about astrology is attributed to Greece's refinement, and even there not until a few centuries BC. It's totally inaccurate. Great job on this site!

    ReplyDelete

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